Grand Slam 3/Grand Slam 3.iso/026/idig44.arj/IDIG44.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1995-03-02 | 92KB

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:36 EET
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1506] Cubic again..

Hello, I just had a little question. Recently there are may articels about cp. So I thought
lets download it. I downloaded it from hornet, but it won't work.
It hangs when I try to load a song. The only thing a can than do is reset my computer.
I have a 486 with gus but it also happens when i try to start it with the no-sound option.
I hope someone knows the answer to this problem...

And I also hope this question has not yet been on the list because, I by mistake deleted about
100 messages from this list (from friday till, now (thursday). If it has been discussed maybe
someone can give the answer to me again.

THAnx in advance,

General / Harald van Engeland
email: [e-mail]






-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:35 EET
From: Zyxt <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1505] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

Just for the sake of the "poll," I have:

1 (one) SB Pro
1 (one) GUS
1 (one) Roland SC-55 (external, Mark 1 version)

______________________________________________________________________________
                                   \|/
      Joe                          - -
                             >>--- o O ---->   Dude, that ruled...next time,
[e-mail]            |                  use the door.
http://www.calpoly.edu/~jreiter    ---


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 18:27 EET
From: "Cyber Edge / Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1511] Vote update


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     ..Paul..Kalupnieks..
  [e-mail]..
 .Cyber.Edge....Syber.Dreams.
  .........-1995-...........
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-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:38 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1507] AWE-good?

> > Why are so many people buying the AWE32?
>
> Because it is the best, most compatible card for general use. If you are a
> mod freak you buy a GUS. If you are a midi freak you buy a Sound Canvas if
> you are a midi freak who likes to upload your own samples you buy a TB
> Monterey.
>
> You buy an AWE-32 if you want to:
>
> 1. Have maximum compatibility for game playing.

SB-AWE is NOT 100% SB compatible. Tropez too altough TB said it is 105%
compatible.

> 2. Want good midi quality.

I you want to have it you have to buy 8 megs into your AWE.
8megs+AWE is about the same price like a Sound Canvas... :-)

> 3. Excellent 16 bit 44.1kHz wave record/playback (It comes with the ASP
> Chip).

There is AWE with and without ASP. Just open the BYTE they have
ads in every issue.

> 4. You want to try your hand at making and using your own midi samples.

..Why not GUS? You can do it with GUS for 3 years now, and
AWE? No support, no docs from Creative Labs...

> 5. Have future upgradability to wave table (Although my vendor friend
> says that about half of the AWE-32s that he sells go out the door with
> either the Korg or the Roland SCD-10).

And my vendor friends hate AWE 'coz half of them are bought back and
wanted to be changed for a GUSMAX.

> 6. Want almost painless installation.

Who doesn't???

> 7. Have the money to spend.

That's the point.

> 8. Oh by the way, it looks like the next release of Iplay may support the
> AWE-32 directly, in which case, if you are a mod freak, you may start
> considering the AWE-32 over a GUS.

Never.

> Most people putting together a new system are spending at least $US1700.
> A DX2/66 is now entry level. Many people who buy new systems don't mind the
> extra $US150 to get the AWE-32 vs the other cards.
>
> Of course there will always be a place for niche products like the GUS
> (especially because of #7).
>
> --
> ========================
> Sam
> [e-mail]
> ========================

Buy a Soundcard. Buy a GUS.

Viktor


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 15:24 EET
From: Schitzo <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1508] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

here's what i got for the poll

1 GUS (just over a year old)
1 SB16 MCD OEM (just under 2 months old)

just a note ... i almost EXCLUSIVELY use the GUS with dos/windows/os2 and
use the SB only when necessary ... ie a few pesky games that don't
support the GUS natively and can't get to work with roland/gmidi emulation.


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 19:59 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1513] Re: AWE-good?



On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, F. Viktor wrote:

> > > Why are so many people buying the AWE32?
> >
> > Because it is the best, most compatible card for general use. If you are a
> > mod freak you buy a GUS. If you are a midi freak you buy a Sound Canvas if
> > you are a midi freak who likes to upload your own samples you buy a TB
> > Monterey.
> >
> > You buy an AWE-32 if you want to:
> >
> > 1. Have maximum compatibility for game playing.
>
> SB-AWE is NOT 100% SB compatible. Tropez too altough TB said it is 105%
> compatible.

It *is* 100% Sound Blaster and SB-16 compatible. It is *not* 100% Sound
Blaster Pro compatible. But in most cases it works as a SBP in mono (e.g.
ST3).

>
> > 2. Want good midi quality.
>
> I you want to have it you have to buy 8 megs into your AWE.
> 8megs+AWE is about the same price like a Sound Canvas... :-)

The AWE-32 with the standard 512K patch set sounds *much* better than a
1Meg GUS MAX in MIDI playback. This is because the EMU chip is a much
better MIDI interpreter than the GF1. I should know because I've played a
suite of songs on both. You don't need 8Megs on the AWE-32. You can, if
you wish, use only two megs in which case it is still twice the maximum
RAM that you can put on a GUS/GUS MAX. Additionally, the Sound Canvas has
no digital audio capability. Only MIDI.

>
> > 3. Excellent 16 bit 44.1kHz wave record/playback (It comes with the ASP
> > Chip).
>
> There is AWE with and without ASP. Just open the BYTE they have
> ads in every issue.

The value edition that you are refering to is just that. It has no SIMM
sockets, no ASP chip (or socket) and no Wave Blaster connector. This is
not the one that I am talking about.

>
> > 4. You want to try your hand at making and using your own midi samples.
>

> ..Why not GUS? You can do it with GUS for 3 years now, and
> AWE? No support, no docs from Creative Labs...

You can but it is a royal pain in the butt to do so. This is due to the
dynamic patch loading scheme. Using Cakewalk (THE midi sequencer of
choice) is a constant excersize of ALT-TAB between it and the patch
manager. Definitly frustrating. I know because I've done it.

You are correct about the lack of *programming* support from CL. As far
as *application* support, it is there and growing rapidly.

>
> > 5. Have future upgradability to wave table (Although my vendor friend
> > says that about half of the AWE-32s that he sells go out the door with
> > either the Korg or the Roland SCD-10).
>
> And my vendor friends hate AWE 'coz half of them are bought back and
> wanted to be changed for a GUSMAX.
>

Why?

> > 6. Want almost painless installation.
>
> Who doesn't???

You get it with all Sound Blasters. You don't with the GUS. I know from
experience.

>
> > 7. Have the money to spend.
>
> That's the point.

Nobody is saying that the AWE-32 is a better *value* than the GUS. It is
a better card. Same as a Mercedes Benz is a better car than a VW. Not a
better value. All of which make these constant putdowns of the AWE-32 by
GUS owners superfulous.

>
> > 8. Oh by the way, it looks like the next release of Iplay may support the
> > AWE-32 directly, in which case, if you are a mod freak, you may start
> > considering the AWE-32 over a GUS.
>
> Never.

Never is a very long time. Have you actually used an AWE-32? or are you
simply happy with the GUS because you just don't know any better? How
many people on this list have both and can honestly say that the GUS is
an overall better card? I would guess not too many.

>
> > Most people putting together a new system are spending at least $US1700.
> > A DX2/66 is now entry level. Many people who buy new systems don't mind the
> > extra $US150 to get the AWE-32 vs the other cards.
> >
> > Of course there will always be a place for niche products like the GUS
> > (especially because of #7).
> >
>
> Buy a Soundcard. Buy a GUS.
>

I hope you stop and read what you are saying. You will see it is not a
basis for a rational, impartial discussion.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:12 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1515] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

1 SB16
1 Turtle Beach Maui

Soon: GUS


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:05 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1514] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....

On Sat, 25 Feb 1995, Lewis A J wrote:

> I'm afraid that I dont have a gus, I don't want one and I don't feel

I don't either, but I want one.

> like a poor sod from where I'm sitting!  Also, of all the people I know
> only 1 has a GUS, and they have no end of trouble with it... DMA IRQ
> and all that stuff... We have a standard.. Why not use/expand on it, rather
> than going back to the dark ages of completely nonstandard hardware taking
> a market share and meaning that any one person can only use a percentage of
> the software!

Umm, it's not going back to the dark ages.  It's called progress.


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 17:59 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1510] Re: Cubic again..

> Hello, I just had a little question. Recently there are may articels about cp. So I thought
> lets download it. I downloaded it from hornet, but it won't work.
> It hangs when I try to load a song. The only thing a can than do is reset my computer.
> I have a 486 with gus but it also happens when i try to start it with the no-sound option.
> I hope someone knows the answer to this problem...
>
> And I also hope this question has not yet been on the list because, I by mista
ke deleted about
> 100 messages from this list (from friday till, now (thursday). If it has been discussed maybe
> someone can give the answer to me again.
>
> THAnx in advance,
>
> General / Harald van Engeland
> email: [e-mail]

Dear GUSser!!!

Your IRQ for the GUS is too high for Cubic Player. (Maybe 11?)
You should use a lower one, like IRQ7. (ULTRASOUND=220,x,x,7,x)
Cubic Player doesn't support high IRQs like the old DOOMs.

Viktor


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 16:30 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1509] Re: Cubic Player? Where From?

On Mon, 27 Feb 95 21:59 EET, "Andrew Ferrier" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Everyone seems to be talking about this wonderful 'cubic player', but can
> anyone give me an ftp site that I can get it from?
> Thanks for reading this humble message, ;-)

Think its ftp.eng.ufl.edu.

regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:54 EET
From: Lewis A J <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1517] GUS...


>  Umm, it's not going back to the dark ages.  It's called progress.

Why is it called progress?  I'd call it starting all over...

The correct approach would be to produce a card with all the standard
compatability, with some extra feature... Then see if it is good enough
to become part of the standard...  There is NOTHING that the GUS does that
the AWE32 doesn't.... So why make the gus totally incompatable... If the gus
was SB compatable then the facct that it was available earlier may just have
meant that the standard was GUS, and not left hanging to go to creative!

Cheers de James.


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 21:37 EET
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1519] Re: AWE-good?


Ok... Can someone explain me then the difference between
SB 16 + Waveblaster
AWE32 + Waveblaster

I read that AWE32 has the ability to get WaveBlaster as an option!
Is this true? And if so why does AWE need WaveBlaster?

Isn't AWE supposed to load patches just like GUS?

I read that WaveBlaster can load patches. Does this mean that you can
use it for MOD playback? If so, will Inertia support WaveBlaster?

Yours,
Spyros Ioakim


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 19:23 EET
From: [e-mail] (ZACH HEITLING)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1512] Cubic Player? Where From?

-> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1501] Cubic Player? Where From?
->
-> Everyone seems to be talking about this wonderful 'cubic player', but can
-> anyone give me an ftp site that I can get it from?
->
-> Thanks for reading this humble message, ;-)
-> --
-> Andrew J Ferrier

A good site is ftp.cdrom.com  in pub/.13/demos/music/programs/players

The file you want is cp095.arj

Zach


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 22:06 EET
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1520] Cubic Player & Gus Discussion....


Hi friends.....
I hope you excuse my poor english....

I'm searching for Cubic Player and I've seen that I can find it in
Hornet. Yes, but which directory?

About Gus vs Sb.... both are good music cards, but I think that this is not
the place to discuss, isn't it?

Thank in advance.

(Ah, IPLAY is fabulous! I've only the 1.2 version... there are others

version most
updated?)

Hello!

[e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 22:39 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1521] Re: AWE-good?

The following message appeared today in my mailbox (edited):

> On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, F. Viktor wrote:
>
> > > > Why are so many people buying the AWE32?
> > > You buy an AWE-32 if you want to:
> > >
> > > 1. Have maximum compatibility for game playing.
> >
> > SB-AWE is NOT 100% SB compatible. Tropez too altough TB said it is 105%
> > compatible.
>
> It *is* 100% Sound Blaster and SB-16 compatible. It is *not* 100% Sound
> Blaster Pro compatible. But in most cases it works as a SBP in mono (e.g.
> ST3).
>
> --
> ========================
> Sam
> [e-mail]
> ========================
>

I don't know about the AWE-32, but I am convinced that the SB-16 is not
100% SB Compatible. I have a SB-16 Value Edition, and have run it with
many games and progs. (and before you say it, they don't need an ASP chip)
and I have found that although it runs fine with all my games in SB-16 mode,
when I have used it in standard SB mode (through lack of support, old programs,
or my trials after finding this 'defect') it does no always work and my machine
crashes. I cannot think of any other reason for this. Anyone who wishes to
challenge me on this or has any interesting info. is invited to post a message.
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Address:
Andrew Ferrier,
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND

Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 21:19 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1518] E-Mail Addresses

To add to your vote list, I have a SB-16 and use the Inertia MOD Player. In
answer to your question, it doesn't make a lot of difference whether
you count 1-1 or 0-0 for SB+GUS, does it? You will still end up with a
similar result.

And by the way, could I say thanks to F. Victor for answering my questions
the other day. I have only just started on this list and would like to get
myself established. When I tried to send this message to you personally,
my mail program said i'd got the wrong address. Never mind... :-)

Thanks for reading this insignificant note,
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Address:
Andrew Ferrier,
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND

Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 00:08 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1524] Re: AWE-good?



On Tue, 28 Feb 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Ok... Can someone explain me then the difference between
> SB 16 + Waveblaster
> AWE32 + Waveblaster

The SB+Wave Blaster (or similar) gives you GM in DOS and Windows in
hardware but no ability to use your own samples or to add echo and reverb.

The AWE-32 + Wave Blaster (or similar) gives you 64 voice polyphony, 32
simultaneous midi tracks as well as native AWE-32 capability AND hardware
MIDI in DOS.

>
> I read that AWE32 has the ability to get WaveBlaster as an option!
> Is this true? And if so why does AWE need WaveBlaster?
>

True. It does not have to be a WB. It can be a Roland, Korg, Turtle beach
or Ensoniq daughterboard depending on your budget and taste. I have a
Korg. It does not need it. The daughterboard simply expands on it's
capabilities.

> Isn't AWE supposed to load patches just like GUS?
>

YES. But unlike the GUS, you have a 28MB RAM limit not 1MB. You also have
the EMU effects processor to add as much or as little chorus and reverb
as you wish.

> I read that WaveBlaster can load patches. Does this mean that you can
> use it for MOD playback? If so, will Inertia support WaveBlaster?
>

The Wave Blaster CANNOT load patches. The AWE-32 can. I hope we will soon
have native support for the AWE-32 in the next release of Iplay.

> Yours,
> Spyros Ioakim
>
>
--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:18 EET
From: Juwan <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1516] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Mon, 27 Feb 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> >Finally, a cheap way to play wavetable quality MIDI files on a FM
> >soundcard. :)
>
> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!

Actually, I believe GM is 128.


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 22:50 EET
From: "Cyber Edge / Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1522] Vote update

    Sorry about the last thing, my mailer doesn't seem to want to
send the text seperatly.


Creative Labs : 6
Advanced Gravis : 10
Mediavision : 3
Other : 3

--

     ..Paul..Kalupnieks..
  [e-mail]..
 .Cyber.Edge.of.Syber.Dreams.
  .........-1995-...........


-----------------

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 23:10 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1523] Re: GUS...


On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Lewis A J wrote:

> >  Umm, it's not going back to the dark ages.  It's called progress.
>
> Why is it called progress?  I'd call it starting all over...

    You've got to some time, unless you want to have your hardware
burdened with all of the compatibilities needed in the past.  You can add
to a standard up to a certain point, but eventually it (the standard)
becomes rediculously large cumbersome and virtually impossible for anyone
to understand.  There is quite a bit to be said for simplicity in
hardware.  First of all, there can be fewer bugs in both hardware and
software.  Secondly, it's cheaper to design and slightly cheaper to
manufacture, so the end card is cheaper.  Why didn't they design TRS-80
compatability into the first PCs?

    Additionally, I feel that the GUS's incompatabilities has helped
it in some areas.  People actually write code that utilizes it, rather
than just flip it into SB emulation mode and slap a "GUS COMPATIBLE"
sticker on their product.  Furthermore, the GUS is not just an extended
SB.  It shares very little with the SB on any level.  In order to make it
totally compatible, it would basically need to be two sound cards.  If
you want two sound cards, why not just buy two separate sound cards, and
have the control over which, rather than just having Gravis say "Ok,
we'll make it compatible with .. THIS. (say, sbpro.)"  If you want SB16
compatiblity, you get a sb16.  If you feel that sbpro compatibility is
enough, you only buy that. If you feel, as I do, that the GUS alone is
enough to fulfill your soundcard needs, you save the money that Gravis
would be charging you to include a SB in the package.



-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 00:15 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1525] Re: AWE-good?



On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Andrew Ferrier wrote:

> The following message appeared today in my mailbox (edited):
>
> > On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, F. Viktor wrote:
> >
> > > > > Why are so many people buying the AWE32?
> > > > You buy an AWE-32 if you want to:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Have maximum compatibility for game playing.
> > >
> > > SB-AWE is NOT 100% SB compatible. Tropez too altough TB said it is 105%
> > > compatible.
> >
> > It *is* 100% Sound Blaster and SB-16 compatible. It is *not* 100% Sound
> > Blaster Pro compatible. But in most cases it works as a SBP in mono (e.g.
> > ST3).
> >
> I don't know about the AWE-32, but I am convinced that the SB-16 is not
> 100% SB Compatible. I have a SB-16 Value Edition, and have run it with
> many games and progs. (and before you say it, they don't need an ASP chip)
> and I have found that although it runs fine with all my games in SB-16 mode,
> when I have used it in standard SB mode (through lack of support, old programs,
> or my trials after finding this 'defect') it does no always work and my machine
> crashes. I cannot think of any other reason for this. Anyone who wishes to
> challenge me on this or has any interesting info. is invited to post a message.

I found that some of the older games ignore the "set blaster" environment
variable. They always assume that it uses IRQ 7 and port 220h which was
the default for the old SB2.0. The newer SB cards default to IRQ 5. If a
program does not check the environment string it will crash. Perhaps that
is your problem.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================

> --
> Andrew J Ferrier
>
> Address:
> Andrew Ferrier,
> 32 Wharfenden Way,
> Frimley Green,
> Camberley,
> Surrey,
> GU16 6PJ.
> ENGLAND
>
> Tel: [phone]
> Email: [e-mail]
>
>


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 02:34 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1528] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2

On Mon, 27 Feb 95 19:22 EET,
ZACH HEITLING  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Well, Catching the late train, I just Downloaded CP...  It is pretty Rad...
>Only two complaints...  It doesn't support ST3's Speed effect completely... It
>also has some trouble with the Tremor Effect...  Other than that, it's the

Well, I don't think you should make those judgements until it's out of beta.

>fastest player I've ever used... It's even faster than DMP.  I always thought
>that was an impossibility.   BTW, what's the difference if you have a Math co
>or not...  And yeah, the wurfel thing is KiNdA FuNkY. :)

You need one to see the Spectrum Analiser.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 02:33 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1527] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

On Mon, 27 Feb 95 19:08 EET,
Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>You buy an AWE-32 if you want to:
>1. Have maximum compatibility for game playing.

It does have SB16 digital sound and FM music, but if you want GM you have
to load a big TSR.

>2. Want good midi quality.

It only has 1MB of patches, to get the full potentail you will need 8MB of
RAM.

>3. Excellent 16 bit 44.1kHz wave record/playback (It comes with the ASP
>Chip).

Nice!

>4. You want to try your hand at making and using your own midi samples.

The GUS can do the same thing, but not at 16bit / 44.1khz.  However, the
GUS MAX at 16bit 48khz can do this just as well.

>5. Have future upgradability to wave table (Although my vendor friend
>says that about half of the AWE-32s that he sells go out the door with
>either the Korg or the Roland SCD-10).

I wish I was as rich as those people! =)

>6. Want almost painless installation.

I didn't have any trouble installing my GUS but some people do.

>8. Oh by the way, it looks like the next release of Iplay may support the
>AWE-32 directly, in which case, if you are a mod freak, you may start
>considering the AWE-32 over a GUS.

Usually MOD entuists follow the demo scene as well, and the AWE-32 has no
support there.

>Most people putting together a new system are spending at least $US1700.
>A DX2/66 is now entry level. Many people who buy new systems don't mind the
>extra $US150 to get the AWE-32 vs the other cards.

I'm having to upgrade to the DX2-66

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 04:12 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1530] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)



On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Feb 95 19:08 EET,
> Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >You buy an AWE-32 if you want to:
> >1. Have maximum compatibility for game playing.
>
> It does have SB16 digital sound and FM music, but if you want GM you have
> to load a big TSR.

Agreed. But most newer games support the AWE-32 directly with excellent
sound quality (doom, doom2, heretic, descent, ROTT etc).

>
> >2. Want good midi quality.
>
> It only has 1MB of patches, to get the full potentail you will need 8MB of
> RAM.

Agreed again. But for a start, the standard patches while not the best,
they are ok.

>
> >3. Excellent 16 bit 44.1kHz wave record/playback (It comes with the ASP
> >Chip).
>
> Nice!
>
> >4. You want to try your hand at making and using your own midi samples.
>
> The GUS can do the same thing, but not at 16bit / 44.1khz.  However, the
> GUS MAX at 16bit 48khz can do this just as well.
>

Not true. I tried to sample at 44.1/16 bit using my GUS MAX and got a lot
of hiss. The recordings I did with the AWE-32 were very quiet. The GF1 is
not as good a midi interpreter as the EMU. It ignores at least a few
controller commands. This has the effect of making midi playback much
more synthetic sounding than the AWE-32. Sorta like playing a good mod
with a bad player. It just doesn't sound right.

> >5. Have future upgradability to wave table (Although my vendor friend
> >says that about half of the AWE-32s that he sells go out the door with
> >either the Korg or the Roland SCD-10).
>
> I wish I was as rich as those people! =)
>

One day you will be Chris. :-) These people aren't really rich. They buy a
computer once every five years. They are probably upgrading from a 286
with a 40 Meg HD. They go out and get a loan or finance their computer
and they load it up so it will be useful for another five years.


> >6. Want almost painless installation.
>
> I didn't have any trouble installing my GUS but some people do.

I didn't either but then I know my way around comuputers and was able to
resolve most problems and give up on others (SBOS and MEGAEM). And I knew
where the problems were before I ever bought it. But a guy who doesn't
know a bat file from Batman buying an expensive new computer with a GUS,
goes home to find that his favorite game doesn't work will most certainly
complain loudly to the place where he bought it. That's why most clone
builders don't offer the GUS unless you ask for it and are warned of the
limitations upfront. They just avoid ploblems and put in a SB or SB
clone. This is unfortunate but true. Like I said before, I love my GUS
but I am more realistic about it. I use it for the things at which it
excells and avoid those that give me trouble.

>
> >8. Oh by the way, it looks like the next release of Iplay may support the
> >AWE-32 directly, in which case, if you are a mod freak, you may start
> >considering the AWE-32 over a GUS.
>
> Usually MOD entuists follow the demo scene as well, and the AWE-32 has no
> support there.

Give it time :-) If the next release of Iplay fixes the known bugs and
adds AWE-32 support, I expect to be using it most of the time to play
mods. I will still use my GUS for demos and where I need the ultimate
player accuracy (CapaMod) for taping but that's about all.

>
> >Most people putting together a new system are spending at least $US1700.
> >A DX2/66 is now entry level. Many people who buy new systems don't mind the
> >extra $US150 to get the AWE-32 vs the other cards.
>
> I'm having to upgrade to the DX2-66

Make sure that you don't buy a motherboard with an Opti or a UMC chipset.
I've had many probs with boards based on those two. I would recommend the
SIS 471. Before Opti or UMC owners flame me, They are not all bad. They
just have more than their share of problems (the boards not the owners:-).
If yours works ok then you *are* lucky or havn't run up against latent
problems yet.

>
> --
> Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
> "There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager
>
>
--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 02:31 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1526] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Mon, 27 Feb 95 18:05 EET,
Ng Cheng Kiang  <attobyte![e-mail]> wrote:

>> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
>Easy, either get them from a GUS user friend, get the UltraSound experience
>CD, ftp them, etc. :)

Does CP _need_ the GUS patchs?  If it would be possible to play this stuff
in software and you had the RAM, you could use nice things like the
Bosendopher and all the other nice huge patches you wanted.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 02:36 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1529] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Mon, 27 Feb 95 20:23 EET,
Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Your town of 5000 is not everybody. The fact that the GUS is made in
>Canada may also influence the numbers where you are ;-)

I know, I guess the GUS isn't even close to as popular in the US as it is
in Canada.

How many towns of 5000 have a local SLiP provider though? ;)

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 06:13 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1531] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2

> BTW, what's the difference if you have a Math co
>or not...

doze spectrum analyzers...

Ch:ilm.




-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 06:17 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1534] Re: Cubic Player & Gus Discussion....

>(Ah, IPLAY is fabulous! I've only the 1.2 version... there are others
>
>version most
>updated?)

1.21 is the latest.

Ch:ilm.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 06:15 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1532] Re: Cubic Player? Where From?

>Everyone seems to be talking about this wonderful 'cubic player', but can
>anyone give me an ftp site that I can get it from?

ftp.eng.ufl.edu
hornet.eng.ufl.edu (same one)

Ch:ilm.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 06:47 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1535] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)



On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Feb 95 20:23 EET,
> Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >Your town of 5000 is not everybody. The fact that the GUS is made in
> >Canada may also influence the numbers where you are ;-)
>
> I know, I guess the GUS isn't even close to as popular in the US as it is
> in Canada.
>
> How many towns of 5000 have a local SLiP provider though? ;)

HeHeHe. You win that round. In the U.S. not many towns of 50,000 have an
internet provider at all, let alone PPP/SLIP.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 09:48 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1538] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

In message <Pine.3.89.9502281917.A28877-0100000@earth> you write:

>On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Feb 95 19:08 EET,
>> Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>> >2. Want good midi quality.
>>
>> It only has 1MB of patches, to get the full potentail you will need 8MB of
>> RAM.
>
>Agreed again. But for a start, the standard patches while not the best,
>they are ok.

Is it 1 MB really?  Somehow I think I heard something about 1/2 MB.

>> >4. You want to try your hand at making and using your own midi samples.
>>
>> The GUS can do the same thing, but not at 16bit / 44.1khz.  However, the
>> GUS MAX at 16bit 48khz can do this just as well.
>>
>
>Not true. I tried to sample at 44.1/16 bit using my GUS MAX and got a lot
>of hiss. The recordings I did with the AWE-32 were very quiet.

I don't know why you got the hiss, but I wouldn't contribute it to the
GUS Max.  This card uses the CS4231 (same as AudioTrix Pro) as audio codec
and this is an excellent chip.  For all I know it's the best multimedia
audio codec/mixer chip next to the Tahiti.  It's SNR, TDR, THD, IMD ratings
are all far better than the SB16's (or AWE32 for that matter).  If you got
hiss with this chip there's something wrong.

>The GF1 is not as good a midi interpreter as the EMU.

The GF1 is no MIDI interpreter at all.  It's a wavetable synthesizer chip.
The MIDI interpreter is the TSR that you load under DOS (MegaEm or whatever
it's called) or the GUS's Windows driver respectively.  They intercept
MIDI commands and translate them into something that the GF1 understands.
If anything, it's these drivers that don't correspond correctly to the MIDI
messages.

>It ignores at least a few
>controller commands. This has the effect of making midi playback much
>more synthetic sounding than the AWE-32. Sorta like playing a good mod
>with a bad player. It just doesn't sound right.
>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
>> "There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager
>>
>>
>--
>========================
>Sam
>[e-mail]
>========================

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 09:09 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1536] Re: GUS...

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>
>On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Lewis A J wrote:
>
>> >  Umm, it's not going back to the dark ages.  It's called progress.
>>
>> Why is it called progress?  I'd call it starting all over...
>
>    You've got to some time, unless you want to have your hardware
>burdened with all of the compatibilities needed in the past.  You can add
>to a standard up to a certain point, but eventually it (the standard)
>becomes rediculously large cumbersome and virtually impossible for anyone
>to understand.  There is quite a bit to be said for simplicity in
>hardware.  First of all, there can be fewer bugs in both hardware and
>software.  Secondly, it's cheaper to design and slightly cheaper to
>manufacture, so the end card is cheaper.  Why didn't they design TRS-80
>compatability into the first PCs?
>
>    Additionally, I feel that the GUS's incompatabilities has helped
>it in some areas.  People actually write code that utilizes it, rather
>than just flip it into SB emulation mode and slap a "GUS COMPATIBLE"
>sticker on their product.  Furthermore, the GUS is not just an extended
>SB.  It shares very little with the SB on any level.  In order to make it
>totally compatible, it would basically need to be two sound cards.  If
>you want two sound cards, why not just buy two separate sound cards, and
>have the control over which, rather than just having Gravis say "Ok,
>we'll make it compatible with .. THIS. (say, sbpro.)"  If you want SB16
>compatiblity, you get a sb16.  If you feel that sbpro compatibility is
>enough, you only buy that. If you feel, as I do, that the GUS alone is
>enough to fulfill your soundcard needs, you save the money that Gravis
>would be charging you to include a SB in the package.

What you say makes a lot of sense and is basically what I stand for.
If someone wants SB compatibility, go and get a SB.  Don't expect every
other card to use a SB style interface, just to be compatible.  A
growing number of people don't need this compatibility and can save the
money and benefit from a better design without this compatibility burden.

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 09:11 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1537] Re: AWE-good?

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>
>Ok... Can someone explain me then the difference between
>SB 16 + Waveblaster
>AWE32 + Waveblaster

The difference is the same as it is between SB 16 and AWE32, namely
the EMU8000.  Roughly, AWE32 = SB16 + EMU8000.

>I read that AWE32 has the ability to get WaveBlaster as an option!
>Is this true? And if so why does AWE need WaveBlaster?

This is true.  It doesn't need a WaveBlaster.  If you add one you
get an MPU-401 interface which most DOS gamers may wish to have.

>Isn't AWE supposed to load patches just like GUS?

If you add RAM to it, yes.

>I read that WaveBlaster can load patches.

No.  WB is purely ROM based.

>Does this mean that you can use it for MOD playback?

The EMU8000 (AWE32), yes, the WB, no.

>If so, will Inertia support WaveBlaster?

No (see above).

>Yours,
>Spyros Ioakim

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 06:16 EET
From: [e-mail] (Joost Baaij)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1533] Re: Cubic again..

>Hello, I just had a little question. Recently there are may articels about
cp. So I thought
>lets download it. I downloaded it from hornet, but it won't work.
>It hangs when I try to load a song. The only thing a can than do is reset
my computer.
>I have a 486 with gus but it also happens when i try to start it with the
no-sound option.
>I hope someone knows the answer to this problem...

-cb and an IRQ below 7...
Just add your normal values to the commandline exept for the IRQ.
Choose and irq below 7. No need to change it on the GUS, cp will do that
for you.

Ch:ilm.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 16:04 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1541] GUS vs SB

So look what we have:

"Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>          GUS
"Rudy Amid" <[e-mail]>                       SB-16
"Hussam Eassa" <[e-mail]>          GUS + SB
"Neil Gardner" [e-mail] SB-16
"Jurassic Mark" <[e-mail]>             GUS
"Joost Baaij" <[e-mail]>              GUS + SB PRO
"Jesse Ozog <GE>" <[e-mail]>      GUS + PAS
"ZACH HEITLING" <[e-mail]>          SB-16
"DAVE MCCARTER" <[e-mail]> PAS-16
"Jacob Cossairt" <[e-mail]>  PAS-16 + Roland
"Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>GUS
"Andy Steere" <[e-mail]>       SB-16
"Brandon M. Browning" <[e-mail]>    PAS-16
and finaly me: "Viktor F." <[e-mail]>   GUS

 Gravis Ultrasound: 7
 Creative Labs:     6
 Pro Audio Spectrum:4
 Other (Roland):    1
Two cards:
 SBcompatible + GUS:3

There are more GUS cards than Sond Blasters!
BUT: There are more SB compatible ones than GUS ones.
     About half of the GUSsers and half of the SB owners have both
     cards in his machine...
I think still that we have not enough datas to make a correct
statistics.

If you don't see yourself up there, please send me a mail
and tell me what kind of soundcard you have.

Viktor


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 16:33 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1543] Re: AWE-good?

> > SB-AWE is NOT 100% SB compatible. Tropez too altough TB said it is 105%
> > compatible.
>
> It *is* 100% Sound Blaster and SB-16 compatible. It is *not* 100% Sound
> Blaster Pro compatible. But in most cases it works as a SBP in mono (e.g.
> ST3).

It is SB-16 compatible. Hahhh. It IS an SB-16 with an EMU8000.

> > I you want to have it you have to buy 8 megs into your AWE.
> > 8megs+AWE is about the same price like a Sound Canvas... :-)
>
> The AWE-32 with the standard 512K patch set sounds *much* better than a
> 1Meg GUS MAX in MIDI playback. This is because the EMU chip is a much
> better MIDI interpreter than the GF1. I should know because I've played a
> suite of songs on both. You don't need 8Megs on the AWE-32. You can, if
> you wish, use only two megs in which case it is still twice the maximum
> RAM that you can put on a GUS/GUS MAX. Additionally, the Sound Canvas has
> no digital audio capability. Only MIDI.

Try hidnseek.mid on AWE-32 but open your WC door before, coz you will
have to run faaaaaaast. :)
There are midis sound better on AWE and there are other ones sound
better on GUS. There are some midis for AWE which are really bad on GUS.
And the same vice versa.

> > > 5. Have future upgradability to wave table (Although my vendor friend
> > > says that about half of the AWE-32s that he sells go out the door with
> > > either the Korg or the Roland SCD-10).
> >
> > And my vendor friends hate AWE 'coz half of them are bought back and
> > wanted to be changed for a GUSMAX.
>
> Why?

Coz AWE need lots of TSR for its programs. It's initializing time
is far too slow. No demos support for AWE. There were only 2 games
in 2 and a half year of GUSsing without sound I wanted to play. Theme Park
and Dark Forces Demo. The final DF will have GUS support. Why do they
need an AWE?

> > > 7. Have the money to spend.
> >
> > That's the point.
>
> Nobody is saying that the AWE-32 is a better *value* than the GUS. It is
> a better card. Same as a Mercedes Benz is a better car than a VW. Not a
> better value. All of which make these constant putdowns of the AWE-32 by
> GUS owners superfulous.

If you have 8 megs in your AWE than it is better than the GUS for Midi
playing. But that time it costs about the same price like a Roland
which is much better. And the GUS doesn't need so much CPU time
playing mods and stuff. Your Mercedes Benz is more like a Rolls Royce.
It eats a lot of fuel, it drives slow but it is go to show off.

> > > 8. Oh by the way, it looks like the next release of Iplay may support the
> > > AWE-32 directly, in which case, if you are a mod freak, you may start
> > > considering the AWE-32 over a GUS.
> >
> > Never.
>
> Never is a very long time. Have you actually used an AWE-32? or are you
> simply happy with the GUS because you just don't know any better? How
> many people on this list have both and can honestly say that the GUS is
> an overall better card? I would guess not too many.

I wouldn't guess. I used an AWE. I had a GUS 3.x first than an AWE.
Afterall I choosed GUS. I bought a GUSMAX.

The only point the AWE has, that its 'parents' WERE the standards for
a long time.

Viktor


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 19:45 EET
From: Kris Buytaert <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1547] Re: GUS vs SB


I have both GusMax and SB 1.5 in the same machine..

Sleeping Dog


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 19:22 EET
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1544] RE: Cubic Player & Gus Discussion....



OK..
Cubic Player 0.95 is on:
ftp.eng.ufl.edu

Directory:
/pub/msdos/demos/music/programs/players

Filename: CP095.ARJ

That's
ALL!!!

Spyros


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 15:10 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1539] Re: AWE-good?



On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> >Isn't AWE supposed to load patches just like GUS?
>
> If you add RAM to it, yes.

You don't need to add RAM to do this. You can do it using the standard
512K that you get with it.

> >Yours,
> >Spyros Ioakim
>
> Jensi

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 19:38 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1546] Re: AWE-good?



On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, F. Viktor wrote:

> > It *is* 100% Sound Blaster and SB-16 compatible. It is *not* 100% Sound
> > Blaster Pro compatible. But in most cases it works as a SBP in mono (e.g.
> > ST3).
>
> It is SB-16 compatible. Hahhh. It IS an SB-16 with an EMU8000.

It is a SB-16 MultiCD with ASP and EMU.

>
> > > I you want to have it you have to buy 8 megs into your AWE.
> > > 8megs+AWE is about the same price like a Sound Canvas... :-)
> >
> > The AWE-32 with the standard 512K patch set sounds *much* better than a
> > 1Meg GUS MAX in MIDI playback. This is because the EMU chip is a much
> > better MIDI interpreter than the GF1. I should know because I've played a
> > suite of songs on both. You don't need 8Megs on the AWE-32. You can, if
> > you wish, use only two megs in which case it is still twice the maximum
> > RAM that you can put on a GUS/GUS MAX. Additionally, the Sound Canvas has
> > no digital audio capability. Only MIDI.
>
> Try hidnseek.mid on AWE-32 but open your WC door before, coz you will
> have to run faaaaaaast. :)

Please e-mail it to me or tell me where I can get it.

> There are midis sound better on AWE and there are other ones sound
> better on GUS. There are some midis for AWE which are really bad on GUS.
> And the same vice versa.

What software are you using to play them? I use Cakewalk and I tweek the
MIDIs for best sound on each card. Remember, MIDI is hardware dependent.
I find that many MIDIs sound terrible on my Multisound and Roland until
they are properly remapped to General MIDI. I don't think too many people
think the Multisound Classic or the Roland are bad MIDI synths:-). Many
MIDIs also depend on SYSEX commands to set up the synth. If you are not
using the *exact* MIDI synth that the composer used, the SYSEX will be
ignored and the tune will sound bad.

Just sucking down a MIDI from the 'Net and playing it *will* usually be
disappointing until you remap.  MIDIs are *not* like mods in that respect.

>
> > > > 5. Have future upgradability to wave table (Although my vendor friend
> > > > says that about half of the AWE-32s that he sells go out the door with
> > > > either the Korg or the Roland SCD-10).
> > >
> > > And my vendor friends hate AWE 'coz half of them are bought back and
> > > wanted to be changed for a GUSMAX.
> >
> > Why?
>
> Coz AWE need lots of TSR for its programs. ......

You don't need *any* tsrs for the AWE-32. The only one that I have is a
6k tsr for the ASP chip.

You do need aweutil if you want to emulate general MIDI. Just the same as
megaem for the GUS. It works just as badly too :-)

> ................... It's initializing time is far too slow.

The init time going into Windows is proportional to how many and how big
the SBKs that you choose to load into the AWE-32 RAM. The default loading
time is about 5 sec or less.

> .....No demos support for AWE.

That is also true of the Turtle Beach, Roland, Kruzwil etc. That does not
mean the GUS is better.

> ...........................There were only 2 games
> in 2 and a half year of GUSsing without sound I wanted to play. Theme Park
> and Dark Forces Demo. The final DF will have GUS support. Why do they
> need an AWE?

Because doom, doom2, heretic, descent, etc. all support the AWE-32 and
they sound a lot better than on the GUS.

>
> > > > 7. Have the money to spend.
> > >
> > > That's the point.
> >
> > Nobody is saying that the AWE-32 is a better *value* than the GUS. It is
> > a better card. Same as a Mercedes Benz is a better car than a VW. Not a
> > better value. All of which make these constant putdowns of the AWE-32 by
> > GUS owners superfulous.
>
> If you have 8 megs in your AWE than it is better than the GUS for Midi
> playing. But that time it costs about the same price like a Roland
> which is much better. And the GUS doesn't need so much CPU time
> playing mods and stuff. Your Mercedes Benz is more like a Rolls Royce.
> It eats a lot of fuel, it drives slow but it is go to show off.

See above. You don't need 8Meg. The AWE-32 MIDI with the default 1Meg ROM
+ the 512k RAM has better MIDI than the GUS and you don't have to fool
around with a patch manager. BTW, it costs $45 (What I paid Gravis) to get
the GUS MAX up to 1Meg. By the time you are done buying the GUS MAX +
upgrade you are only $US50 or so from the price of an AWE-32.....

>
> > > > 8. Oh by the way, it looks like the next release of Iplay may support the
> > > > AWE-32 directly, in which case, if you are a mod freak, you may start
> > > > considering the AWE-32 over a GUS.
> > >
> > > Never.
> >
> > Never is a very long time. Have you actually used an AWE-32? or are you
> > simply happy with the GUS because you just don't know any better? How
> > many people on this list have both and can honestly say that the GUS is
> > an overall better card? I would guess not too many.
>
> I wouldn't guess. I used an AWE. I had a GUS 3.x first than an AWE.
> Afterall I choosed GUS. I bought a GUSMAX.

Did you keep it long enough to understand it's full potential?

> The only point the AWE has, that its 'parents' WERE the standards for
> a long time.

And they will remain so for a long time to come. The GUS will have it's
fans but Gravis is not likely to overtake CL for a long while. It's the
same as DOS. It's been with us since 1982. Everybody complains about it
but it is still here. Every new operating system *must* support DOS
emulation well before it is viable (remember OS/2 1.0?).

>
> Viktor
>
--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 15:41 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1540] Re: GUS...

[...]
> >compatiblity, you get a sb16.  If you feel that sbpro compatibility is
> >enough, you only buy that. If you feel, as I do, that the GUS alone is
> >enough to fulfill your soundcard needs, you save the money that Gravis
> >would be charging you to include a SB in the package.
>
> What you say makes a lot of sense and is basically what I stand for.
> If someone wants SB compatibility, go and get a SB.  Don't expect every
> other card to use a SB style interface, just to be compatible.  A
> growing number of people don't need this compatibility and can save the
> money and benefit from a better design without this compatibility burden.
>
> Jensi

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

I agree.

Viktor


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 16:06 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1542] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)



On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> >> On Mon, 27 Feb 95 19:08 EET,
> >> Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >2. Want good midi quality.
> >>
> >> It only has 1MB of patches, to get the full potentail you will need 8MB of
> >> RAM.
> >
> >Agreed again. But for a start, the standard patches while not the best,
> >they are ok.
>
> Is it 1 MB really?  Somehow I think I heard something about 1/2 MB.

Yes. You get 1Meg of patches in ROM *and* 512K of RAM to upload custom
SBKs. This info is from the AWE-32 FAQ.

>
> >> >4. You want to try your hand at making and using your own midi samples.
> >>
> >> The GUS can do the same thing, but not at 16bit / 44.1khz.  However, the
> >> GUS MAX at 16bit 48khz can do this just as well.
> >>
> >
> >Not true. I tried to sample at 44.1/16 bit using my GUS MAX and got a lot
> >of hiss. The recordings I did with the AWE-32 were very quiet.
>
> I don't know why you got the hiss, but I wouldn't contribute it to the
> GUS Max.  This card uses the CS4231 (same as AudioTrix Pro) as audio codec
> and this is an excellent chip.  For all I know it's the best multimedia
> audio codec/mixer chip next to the Tahiti.  It's SNR, TDR, THD, IMD ratings
> are all far better than the SB16's (or AWE32 for that matter).  If you got
> hiss with this chip there's something wrong.

The noise performance is not solely dependent on the CODEC. The support
circuits (preamps, layout, etc) play a big role. I've used two different
boards that use that CODEC. The GUS MAX and the TB Monte Carlo. The Monte
Carlo was actually quieter than the GUS MAX in the same PC. My experience
with hiss in the GUS wave circuits (not the GF1, THAT is quiet) is not
unique. Ask Jester about his experience :-) Your ATP probably is better
designed and is able to take maximum advantage of the CS4231's
performance. The GUS MAX does not seem to. Published reviews (The Computer
Shopper, Oct '94) shows this clearly. In that same review, the AWE-32 came
out about 5db quieter (61db to 56 db) than the GUS MAX for 44.1kHz/16 bit
record/playback. My experience supports this.

>
> >The GF1 is not as good a midi interpreter as the EMU.
>
> The GF1 is no MIDI interpreter at all.  It's a wavetable synthesizer chip.
> The MIDI interpreter is the TSR that you load under DOS (MegaEm or whatever
> it's called) or the GUS's Windows driver respectively.  They intercept
> MIDI commands and translate them into something that the GF1 understands.
> If anything, it's these drivers that don't correspond correctly to the MIDI
> messages.

Ahh. I stand corrected. The results are the same, however.

>
> Jensi
>
--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 21:14 EET
From: "Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1548] Sound card vote.


                        The Sound Card Wars
                        ===================

                        Creative Labs   - 10
                        Advanced Gravis - 11
                        MediaVision     - 4
                        Other           - 4


    Looks like GUS and stuff has the lead, with SB(and others) with
second. SB and compatibles is actually got the lead, and I'm not
tracking multiple cards in one system. Im also not tracking who sent
me thier votes, but that doesn't mean that I won't notice if you vote
more than once.

    Send your vote to :
            [e-mail]


(As I asked the question in the first place)








--

+..................+............................+....................+
|..Upper...Canada..|......Paul..Kalupnieks......|.."Look.on.the......|
|......College.....|[e-mail]...|...bright.side.is...|
|...Toronto,.Ont...|.Cyber.Edge.of.Syber.Dreams.|...suicide".........|
|..................|..........-1995-............|............-Cobain.|


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 21:15 EET
From: "Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1549] Re: AWE-good?

> I don't know about the AWE-32, but I am convinced that the SB-16 is not
> 100% SB Compatible. I have a SB-16 Value Edition, and have run it with
> many games and progs. (and before you say it, they don't need an ASP chip)
> and I have found that although it runs fine with all my games in SB-16 mode,
> when I have used it in standard SB mode (through lack of support, old programs,
> or my trials after finding this 'defect') it does no always work and my machine
> crashes. I cannot think of any other reason for this. Anyone who wishes to
> challenge me on this or has any interesting info. is invited to post a message.

    Personally, I've never had any problems with compatibility with
my SB-16 (value ed.). Dunno why. Either it was supported in native
(as native as SB-16 can be) or it worked with the SB or SB-pro
setting. I have it set for factory default, and have had _no_
problems with anything (except figuring out how to program it).

--

+..................+............................+....................+
|..Upper...Canada..|......Paul..Kalupnieks......|.."Look.on.the......|
|......College.....|[e-mail]...|...bright.side.is...|
|...Toronto,.Ont...|.Cyber.Edge.of.Syber.Dreams.|...suicide".........|
|..................|..........-1995-............|............-Cobain.|


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 21:52 EET
From: "Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1551] Iplay


    When is the newest version (1.3?) of Iplay coming out?
    --

+..................+............................+....................+
|..Upper...Canada..|......Paul..Kalupnieks......|.."Look.on.the......|
|......College.....|[e-mail]...|...bright.side.is...|
|...Toronto,.Ont...|.Cyber.Edge.of.Syber.Dreams.|...suicide".........|
|..................|..........-1995-............|............-Cobain.|


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 21:59 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1552] Re: AWE-good?

The follwing message is edited.
> > I don't know about the AWE-32, but I am convinced that the SB-16 is not
> > 100% SB Compatible. I have a SB-16 Value Edition, and have run it with
> > many games and progs. (and before you say it, they don't need an ASP chip)
> > and I have found that although it runs fine with all my games in SB-16 mode,
> > when I have used it in standard SB mode (through lack of support, old programs,
> > or my trials after finding this 'defect') it does no always work and my machine
> > crashes. I cannot think of any other reason for this. Anyone who wishes to
> > challenge me on this or has any interesting info. is invited to post a message.
>
> I found that some of the older games ignore the "set blaster" environment
> variable. They always assume that it uses IRQ 7 and port 220h which was
> the default for the old SB2.0. The newer SB cards default to IRQ 5. If a
> program does not check the environment string it will crash. Perhaps that
> is your problem.
>
> --
> ========================
> Sam
> [e-mail]
> ========================

It was a good idea, Sam, but most of the progs. I have used it with were
ones that either I can be sure did use the right parameters (it's displayed
somewhere) or I set them up in a config/setup file. I'm still looking for
an answer...
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Address:
Andrew Ferrier,
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND

Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 22:54 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1556] S3m and GUS Patches

Hi,
    Does anyone know if I can use the GUS patches to compose with in
Scream Traker?  Thanks

Jamie McCarter
[e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 21:46 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1550] Re: AWE-good?

> Ok... Can someone explain me then the difference between
> SB 16 + Waveblaster
> AWE32 + Waveblaster
>
> I read that AWE32 has the ability to get WaveBlaster as an option!
> Is this true? And if so why does AWE need WaveBlaster?
>
> Isn't AWE supposed to load patches just like GUS?
>
> I read that WaveBlaster can load patches. Does this mean that you can
> use it for MOD playback? If so, will Inertia support WaveBlaster?
>
> Yours,
> Spyros Ioakim
>

SB16 has no -

QSound Effect
Reverb Effect
Chorus Effect
        i.e. AWE32 effects engine
512K Sample Ram
GM Compatibility
Microphone as standard!
And a couple of other minor things...

However, you're right that there is not a lot of difference.

AWE-32 can load patches. I don't know whether it's the same as a GUS though.
Why, though, does Inertia need to load patches in a WaveBlaster? What
is the advantage?
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Address:
Andrew Ferrier,
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND

Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 22:29 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1553] Re: Inertia 1.21

> >(Ah, IPLAY is fabulous! I've only the 1.2 version... there are others
> >
> >version most
> >updated?)
>
> 1.21 is the latest.
>
> Ch:ilm.
>

What advantages does 1.21 offer over 1.20 (mine) and where can I get it
from? (preferably near the UK - I know there are probably loads of sites in
the US, and although these would be helpful, I would like max. downloading
speed)

--
Andrew J Ferrier

Address:
Andrew Ferrier,
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND

Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 22:30 EET
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Ferrier)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1554] Re: Cubic Player? Where From?

>Everyone seems to be talking about this wonderful 'cubic player', but can
>anyone give me an ftp site that I can get it from?

Thanks to all who have given me the following compiled answers:

ftp.eng.ufl.edu
/pub/msdos/demos/music/programs/players

ftp.cdrom.com
pub/.13/demos/music/programs/players
--
Andrew J Ferrier

Address:
Andrew Ferrier,
32 Wharfenden Way,
Frimley Green,
Camberley,
Surrey,
GU16 6PJ.
ENGLAND

Tel: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 23:47 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1560] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Wed, 1 Mar 95 06:47 EET,
Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> I know, I guess the GUS isn't even close to as popular in the US as it is
>> in Canada.
>> How many towns of 5000 have a local SLiP provider though? ;)
>HeHeHe. You win that round. In the U.S. not many towns of 50,000 have an
>internet provider at all, let alone PPP/SLIP.

They just set up a few months ago so PPP won't be available for about 45
days.  In the maritimes of Canada we now have area wide coverage, meaning
no matter where you live in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI, or
Newfoundland, you can get Internet access.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 19:37 EET
From: [e-mail] (ZACH HEITLING)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1545] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2

-> Hi,
-> Thanks for the patches sites, I really appreciate that.  I probably
-> appreciate it more once I hear the difference.
->
-> Jamie

Undoubtedly....  I'm having trouble connecting, but I'm still working on it.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 23:37 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1558] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

On Wed, 1 Mar 95 04:12 EET,
Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Agreed. But most newer games support the AWE-32 directly with excellent
>sound quality (doom, doom2, heretic, descent, ROTT etc).

DOOM?  I never remember seing AWE32 as an option...

>> It only has 1MB of patches, to get the full potentail you will need 8MB of
>> RAM.
>Agreed again. But for a start, the standard patches while not the best,
>they are ok.

I think the AWE32 could sound better if they offered a 4MB ROM version with
higher quality patches.

>Not true. I tried to sample at 44.1/16 bit using my GUS MAX and got a lot
>of hiss. The recordings I did with the AWE-32 were very quiet. The GF1 is

I can't argue with that, I have never tried to record with either card.

>> I wish I was as rich as those people! =)
>One day you will be Chris. :-) These people aren't really rich. They buy a
>computer once every five years. They are probably upgrading from a 286
>with a 40 Meg HD. They go out and get a loan or finance their computer
>and they load it up so it will be useful for another five years.

Well 2 years ago I got a 486/33 with a 170MB Hard Drive.  Over the next
year I bought a 14.4k modem, and a SB/PRO.  The next year I added a 270MB
HD and a GUS.  This year I just ordered a DX2-66 chip and 4MB more RAM.  So
you see, you don't have to keep a shit computer for 5 years, upgrade the
one you have!

>> I didn't have any trouble installing my GUS but some people do.
>I didn't either but then I know my way around comuputers and was able to
>resolve most problems and give up on others (SBOS and MEGAEM). And I knew

I hate SBOS but Mega-Em is a nice program!

>where the problems were before I ever bought it. But a guy who doesn't
>know a bat file from Batman buying an expensive new computer with a GUS,
>goes home to find that his favorite game doesn't work will most certainly
>complain loudly to the place where he bought it. That's why most clone

I agree 100% that the GUS isn't the best card for a user totally new to
computers.

However if you know what you're doing and especially if you have an
interest in programming or composing, the GUS is a great soundcard.

>Give it time :-) If the next release of Iplay fixes the known bugs and
>adds AWE-32 support, I expect to be using it most of the time to play
>mods. I will still use my GUS for demos and where I need the ultimate
>player accuracy (CapaMod) for taping but that's about all.

I hope it will do more than that after an 8 month wait for a new version.

>> I'm having to upgrade to the DX2-66
>Make sure that you don't buy a motherboard with an Opti or a UMC chipset.

No my current motherboard, although non-VLB supports the DX2 so I'll just
pull out my 486/33.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 01:11 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1561] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

In message <[e-mail]> you write:

>On Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:18 EET,
>Juwan  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>> >Finally, a cheap way to play wavetable quality MIDI files on a FM
>>> >soundcard. :)
>>> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
>>Actually, I believe GM is 128.
>
>How come the GUS comes with 192?
>
>--
>Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
>"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager

Because you also need 50 some drum patches.

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 01:44 EET
From: DAVE MCCARTER <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1563] CP and Iplay

Hi,
Will the next version of CP support the pas-16? (8 bit _really_ sucks)
or
Will the next version of Iplay support MIDI files by reading GUS sound patches?

_____________________________________________________________________________
Jamie McCarter
[e-mail]
"Live Long and Render"
"Without a sound card, a PC is just an expensive calculator."


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 01:34 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1562] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)



On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:18 EET,
> Juwan  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >> >Finally, a cheap way to play wavetable quality MIDI files on a FM
> >> >soundcard. :)
> >> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
> >Actually, I believe GM is 128.
>
> How come the GUS comes with 192?
>

Mainly because of the percussion. MIDI is 128 instruments, but one of them
is percussion. The percussion instrument requires seperate patches for
stuff like crash cymbal, ride cymbal, low tom, high tom etc. So you end up
with many more than 128 if you count each percussion patch. This is true
not only for the GUS but for all MIDI cards. It is evident for the GUS
because of it's unique disk based seperate patches. They are out where you
can see them and not buried in ROM or an SBK.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================



-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 23:36 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1557] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:18 EET,
Juwan  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>> >Finally, a cheap way to play wavetable quality MIDI files on a FM
>> >soundcard. :)
>> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
>Actually, I believe GM is 128.

How come the GUS comes with 192?

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 03:45 EET
From: Schitzo <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1564] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2



On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, ZACH HEITLING wrote:

> -> Hi,
> -> Thanks for the patches sites, I really appreciate that.  I probably
> -> appreciate it more once I hear the difference.
> ->
> -> Jamie
>
> Undoubtedly....  I'm having trouble connecting, but I'm still working on it.

connecting? where? ftpsite? ... if it's for the patch set then you might
want to try the more local sites (ie on your continent).  otherwise it
will be very slow ... or even not at all.


-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 22:32 EET
From: Bryce Penberthy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1555] Re: Sound card vote.


Just to put in my vote, I've got a GUS!!!



-----------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 23:38 EET
From: "Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1559] Re: Cubic Player & Gus Discussion....

On Wed, 1 Mar 95 06:17 EET,
Joost Baaij  <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>(Ah, IPLAY is fabulous! I've only the 1.2 version... there are others
>>version most
>>updated?)
>1.21 is the latest.

It includes only 1 major feature: A virus in the setup program.

--
Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
"There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 05:17 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1565] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)


On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:18 EET,
> Juwan  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >> >Finally, a cheap way to play wavetable quality MIDI files on a FM
> >> >soundcard. :)
> >> You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
> >Actually, I believe GM is 128.
>
> How come the GUS comes with 192?
>

     I think GM is 128 melodic patches plus an additional 64 perc sounds.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 05:39 EET
From: "Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1567] Net access

> They just set up a few months ago so PPP won't be available for about 45
> days.  In the maritimes of Canada we now have area wide coverage, meaning
> no matter where you live in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI, or
> Newfoundland, you can get Internet access.
>
> --
> Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
> "There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager

    I wish I could find a local, cheap 'net provider in south-western
Ontario. Then again, cheap in my book is like basically nothing.



--
+..................+............................+....................+
|..Upper...Canada..|......Paul..Kalupnieks......|.."Look.on.the......|
|......College.....|[e-mail]...|...bright.side.is...|
|...Toronto,.Ont...|.Cyber.Edge.of.Syber.Dreams.|...suicide".........|
|..................|..........-1995-............|............-Cobain.|


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 05:38 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1566] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Chris Campbell wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Mar 95 04:12 EET,
> Hussam Eassa  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> >Agreed. But most newer games support the AWE-32 directly with excellent
> >sound quality (doom, doom2, heretic, descent, ROTT etc).
>
> DOOM?  I never remember seing AWE32 as an option...

Yup. You need doom 1.666 or higher. The earlier versions did not have
that as an option.

>
> >> It only has 1MB of patches, to get the full potentail you will need 8MB of
> >> RAM.
> >Agreed again. But for a start, the standard patches while not the best,
> >they are ok.
>
> I think the AWE32 could sound better if they offered a 4MB ROM version with
> higher quality patches.

No quetion about that.

>
> >> I wish I was as rich as those people! =)
> >One day you will be Chris. :-) These people aren't really rich. They buy a
> >computer once every five years. They are probably upgrading from a 286
> >with a 40 Meg HD. They go out and get a loan or finance their computer
> >and they load it up so it will be useful for another five years.
>
> Well 2 years ago I got a 486/33 with a 170MB Hard Drive.  Over the next
> year I bought a 14.4k modem, and a SB/PRO.  The next year I added a 270MB
> HD and a GUS.  This year I just ordered a DX2-66 chip and 4MB more RAM.  So
> you see, you don't have to keep a shit computer for 5 years, upgrade the
> one you have!

I agree. But you, I and most people on this list are more inclined to do
this than the average. Just like we seem to have a higher proportion of
GUS owners than the general poulation. Our interests and needs are
different too.

>
> >> I didn't have any trouble installing my GUS but some people do.
> >I didn't either but then I know my way around comuputers and was able to
> >resolve most problems and give up on others (SBOS and MEGAEM). And I knew
>
> I hate SBOS but Mega-Em is a nice program!
>

I couldn't get it to work with any DOS/4G based program. SBOS works on
older games but the resulting sound quality makes me long for my old SB
2.0 ;-)

> >where the problems were before I ever bought it. But a guy who doesn't
> >know a bat file from Batman buying an expensive new computer with a GUS,
> >goes home to find that his favorite game doesn't work will most certainly
> >complain loudly to the place where he bought it. That's why most clone
>
> I agree 100% that the GUS isn't the best card for a user totally new to
> computers.
>
> However if you know what you're doing and especially if you have an
> interest in programming or composing, the GUS is a great soundcard.
>
Agreed.

> >Give it time :-) If the next release of Iplay fixes the known bugs and
> >adds AWE-32 support, I expect to be using it most of the time to play
> >mods. I will still use my GUS for demos and where I need the ultimate
> >player accuracy (CapaMod) for taping but that's about all.
>
> I hope it will do more than that after an 8 month wait for a new version.

:-)

> >> I'm having to upgrade to the DX2-66
> >Make sure that you don't buy a motherboard with an Opti or a UMC chipset.
>
> No my current motherboard, although non-VLB supports the DX2 so I'll just
> pull out my 486/33.
>

Good luck.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


> --
> Chris Campbell - Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia / Canada
> "There's coffee in that nebula" - Janeway, ST Voyager
>
>


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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 07:34 EET
From: Jacob Cossairt <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1568] GUS vs SB

On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, F. Viktor wrote:

>  Gravis Ultrasound: 7
>  Creative Labs:     6
>  Pro Audio Spectrum:4
>  Other (Roland):    1
> Two cards:
>  SBcompatible + GUS:3
> There are more GUS cards than Sond Blasters!
> BUT: There are more SB compatible ones than GUS ones.
>      About half of the GUSsers and half of the SB owners have both
>      cards in his machine...
> I think still that we have not enough datas to make a correct
> statistics.

I think this data is relatively accurate for the people on this list and
the people who follow the scene, but as a whole the data is way off.  I'm
sure a higher percentage of people who own GUS's follow the demo scene as
compared to everybody else with a Soundblaster.  I'm sure I could find
several SB owners who have never seen a demo or heard a .mod file.  But
then again, who cares.... it's just a survey for fun!

______________________________________________________________________________
Jacob Cossairt's signature:     ! @   @ ! E-mail: [e-mail]
Senior - Bronson High School    !   <   ! RIME: ->5287 or ->DRAGCIT  |  | * |
Fall '95: Freshman - University ! `---' ! Fidonet: 1:2201/41.4       |--| | |
of Michigan/ Ann Arbor majoring !!!!!!!!! Echonet: Not anymore!      |  | | *
in Computer Engineering           WWW: http://kecomp.reshall.umich.edu/~jacob/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 10:40 EET
From: Zyxt <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1580] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

>
> Does CP _need_ the GUS patchs?  If it would be possible to play this stuff
> in software and you had the RAM, you could use nice things like the
> Bosendopher and all the other nice huge patches you wanted.
>
> --
 Yeah, it seems that you could make or use your own samples in place of
the ones that come with the gus.  Just make your own sample of, let's
say, that Grand Piano on your Sound Canvas. :)  Then, some how or another
save that sample in the format that the GUS uses for its samples, and
copy that file in place of the Grand Paino sample in your GUS sample
directory on your hard drive.  Does this make sense?  Would it actually work?
______________________________________________________________________________
                                   \|/
      Joe                          - -
                             >>--- o O ---->   Dude, that ruled...next time,
[e-mail]            |                  use the door.
http://www.calpoly.edu/~jreiter    ---


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 10:38 EET
From: Zyxt <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1579] Re: AWE-good?

>
> Try hidnseek.mid on AWE-32 but open your WC door before, coz you will
> have to run faaaaaaast. :)
> There are midis sound better on AWE and there are other ones sound
> better on GUS. There are some midis for AWE which are really bad on GUS.
> And the same vice versa.
>
  Well, this isn't necessarily due to the hardware on the soundcard.  It's
just that the instrument samples that come with one card aren't as well
done as the samples that come with the other (although this is pretty much
a preference thing).  I would guess that if you use the same samples on
both cards, the midi's would sound the same on both.
  Just a thought.
______________________________________________________________________________
                                   \|/
      Joe                          - -
                             >>--- o O ---->   Dude, that ruled...next time,
[e-mail]            |                  use the door.
http://www.calpoly.edu/~jreiter    ---


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 11:37 EET
From: [e-mail] (STIMPY)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1582] Re: GUS vs. SB(and such)

-> Why is it that everybody here thinks there is only 2 different sound
-> cards in this world?  There are a lot of other cards besides SB and
-> GUS.  What about PAS, Tahiti, Roland, AudioTrix, Ensoniq, Monterey,
-> Tropez, WSS...  The world is not black and white only!

-> Jensi

You forgot the PC Speaker and the Tandy DAC.

Jason
(don't hit :-)


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 12:51 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1585] Re: GUS vs SB


So look what we have today:

"Chris Campbell" <[e-mail]>          GUS
"Rudy Amid" <[e-mail]>                       SB-16
"Hussam Eassa" <[e-mail]>          GUS + SB
"Neil Gardner" [e-mail] SB-16
"Jurassic Mark" <[e-mail]>             GUS
"Joost Baaij" <[e-mail]>              GUS + SB PRO
"Jesse Ozog <GE>" <[e-mail]>      GUS + PAS
"ZACH HEITLING" <[e-mail]>          SB-16
"DAVE MCCARTER" <[e-mail]> PAS-16
"Jacob Cossairt" <[e-mail]>  PAS-16 + Roland
"Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>GUS
"Andy Steere" <[e-mail]>       SB-16
"Brandon M. Browning" <[e-mail]>    PAS-16

"Juwan" <[e-mail]>                        SB-16 + Maui
"Andrew Ferrier" [e-mail]    SB-16
"Kris Sturgess" [e-mail] + SB
"Schitzo" <[e-mail]>             GUS + SB
"Thomas Axelsson" <[e-mail]>              GUS
"Paul Dermody CA2" [e-mail]       SB-AWE32
"Kris Buytaert" <[e-mail]>  GUS + SB
"Mike Freymond" [e-mail]       PAS
"Cuthalion / Sliced Bread" <[e-mail]> GUS
"Bryce Penberthy" <[e-mail]>   GUS
"Jimmy Wan" <[e-mail]>                    SB + TB Maui
"Marko Haapam{ki" <[e-mail]>     GUS
"JUAN ANTONIO ARTAL LOZANO" <[e-mail]
"STIMPY" [e-mail]                    SB-16
and finaly me: "Viktor F." <[e-mail]>   GUS
(Some address was to long, I had to cut off a bit.)

 Gravis Ultrasound: 14
 Creative Labs:     15
 Pro Audio Spectrum:5
 Turtle Beach:      2
 Other (Roland):    1
Two cards:
 SBcompatible + GUS:6
 SB + TB           :2


If you don't see yourself up there, please send a mail to:
"Cyber Edge of Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]>
with your vote.

Viktor


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 12:31 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1583] Re: AWE-good?

> > Try hidnseek.mid on AWE-32 but open your WC door before, coz you will
> > have to run faaaaaaast. :)
>
> Please e-mail it to me or tell me where I can get it.

It's on GUS install disks, if you had a GUS you had hidnseek.mid too.
I will mail it tomorro, ok?

> > There are midis sound better on AWE and there are other ones sound
> > better on GUS. There are some midis for AWE which are really bad on GUS.
> > And the same vice versa.
>
> What software are you using to play them? I use Cakewalk and I tweek the
> MIDIs for best sound on each card. Remember, MIDI is hardware dependent.
> I find that many MIDIs sound terrible on my Multisound and Roland until
> they are properly remapped to General MIDI. I don't think too many people
> think the Multisound Classic or the Roland are bad MIDI synths:-). Many
> MIDIs also depend on SYSEX commands to set up the synth. If you are not
> using the *exact* MIDI synth that the composer used, the SYSEX will be
> ignored and the tune will sound bad.

Windows: cakewalk
DOS:  playmidi

> You don't need *any* tsrs for the AWE-32. The only one that I have is a
> 6k tsr for the ASP chip.

Ok, i'll say it in a different way: if you want to use your card 100%
you have to use tsr-s. Is that right? (Like that one for ASP)

> > .....No demos support for AWE.
>
> That is also true of the Turtle Beach, Roland, Kruzwil etc. That does not
> mean the GUS is better.

There are cards for MIDI playing only, these card are not good for demos
for sure they have an excellent sound when you play midi files. But AWE
has the ability (or not?) to play FM sounds and it isn't supported by
demo programmers.

> Because doom, doom2, heretic, descent, etc. all support the AWE-32 and
> they sound a lot better than on the GUS.

You are the only one saying that. I'd say both are same.

> Did you keep it long enough to understand it's full potential?

I had it for about 10 days. We (me and other guys) are also testing
sound cards for hungarian computer magazines, so I also had a Tropez,
a Maui, right now I have my MAX in its box and I'm testing GUS ACE +
SBPro in my comp (until my brother puts back his testcard: Roland SCC1.).
GUS and AWE are not the only soundcards I heard beleive me.

> > The only point the AWE has, that its 'parents' WERE the standards for
> > a long time.
>
> And they will remain so for a long time to come. The GUS will have it's
> fans but Gravis is not likely to overtake CL for a long while. It's the
> same as DOS. It's been with us since 1982. Everybody complains about it
> but it is still here. Every new operating system *must* support DOS
> emulation well before it is viable (remember OS/2 1.0?).

You might be right. We sure will see it in 5 years or so, if you had right
or not. I'll say enough from this 'war', let's wait some years for
the results. Maybe a new soundcard is coming and both SB and GUS will
die? Who knows?

Viktor


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 12:49 EET
From: JUAN ANTONIO ARTAL LOZANO <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1584] SB Routines

HELLO:

   Anybody know where can I find SB routines for
programming. I'm a computer science student and I
need them.


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 15:59 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1587] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Tue, 28 Feb 95 20:19 EET, "Juwan" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> > >Finally, a cheap way to play wavetable quality MIDI files on a FM
> > >soundcard. :)
> > You just need to get yourself 192 patches!  No easy task!
> Actually, I believe GM is 128.
192, including 64 drum sounds. :)

Regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 16:03 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1589] Re: Vote update

On Tue, 28 Feb 95 18:27 EET, "Cyber Edge / Syber Dreams" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> This message contains a file prepared for transmission using the
> MIME BASE64 transfer encoding scheme. If you are using Pegasus
> Mail or another MIME-compliant system, you should be able to extract
> it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system
> administrator for help.
>
>    ---- File information -----------
>      File:  TOTALS.TXT
>      Date:  28 Feb 1995, 11:22
>      Size:  187 bytes.
>      Type:  Text

Can you mail me the TOTALS.TXT in plaintext? I don't have access to a MIME
decoder/whatever you call it. <g> Thanks in advance.

Regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 16:36 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1590] Re: GUS.... Never Seen one....


On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Jimmy Wan wrote:

>
> Well, there are ways to work around this.  Why not make a program that
> converts modules into MIDI files, and plays them back as such, with a
> special MIDI driver?  Ever hear of the Midas Module Player?  Pretty neat
> piece of software.  It let's you play MOD's and S3M's under any MCI
> device, such as Media Player under Windoze.  If you have a GUS, it uses ~
> 0% processing time.  I'm just hoping the Maui version and the AWE-32
> versions are farther along in the developmental stage than I think.

That has it's problems too. How do you handle non-instrument tracks in a
mod (such as speech)? Additionally, you would then be limited by the
quality of the midi synth. This becomes a real problem for FM cards.

I am not familiar with Midas but I would suspect it would not be as
accurate as MOD4WIN. I also suspect that the overall results would be too
far removed from the original work. I really don't know since I have not
tried it.

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 15:57 EET
From: "Ng Cheng Kiang" <attobyte![e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1586] Re: Cubic again..

On Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:37 EET, [e-mail] wrote:

> Hello, I just had a little question. Recently there are may articels about cp. So I thought
> lets download it. I downloaded it from hornet, but it won't work.
> It hangs when I try to load a song. The only thing a can than do is reset my computer.
> I have a 486 with gus but it also happens when i try to start it with the no-sound option.
> I hope someone knows the answer to this problem...
> And I also hope this question has not yet been on the list because, I by mistake deleted about
> 100 messages from this list (from friday till, now (thursday). If it has been discussed maybe
> someone can give the answer to me again.

Try using an IRQ lower than or equal to 7.

Regards
--
 +-------------------------------------------+
 | Ng Cheng Kiang      Fidonet: 6:600/230.10 |
 |    Internet: [e-mail]     |
 +-------------------------------------------+


-----------------

Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 16:43 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <[e-mail]>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1591] Re: Cubic v0.95 (was: An OS/2 Music player)

On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Zyxt wrote:

> >
> > Does CP _need_ the GUS patchs?  If it would be possible to play this stuff
> > in software and you had the RAM, you could use nice things like the
> > Bosendopher and all the other nice huge patches you wanted.
> >
> > --
>  Yeah, it seems that you could make or use your own samples in place of
> the ones that come with the gus.  Just make your own sample of, let's
> say, that Grand Piano on your Sound Canvas. :)  Then, some how or another
> save that sample in the format that the GUS uses for its samples, and
> copy that file in place of the Grand Paino sample in your GUS sample
> directory on your hard drive.  Does this make sense?  Would it actually work?

Yes, you could do that but it is heavy duty work. The GUS MAX comes with a
utility called PatchMaker that does just that. It allows you to start out
with a wave sample, massage it and save it in the GUS's .pat format.I'm
sure that there are others. The more sensible approach is to start out
with the standard GUS patches and then selectively replace those that you
particularly dislike. So far I've replaced the fx rain patch (aurora.pat)
with one that I sampled from my Multisound Classic. It is a time consuming
effort to get good results. I sure wouldn't want to do the same for the
other 191 patches!

--
========================
Sam
[e-mail]
========================


-----------------